Ducati Ss1000ds
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I've been around for a little while just reading things on this board and I thought I might post and ask you guys for your opinions regarding the two aforementioned bikes.
As it is 05 749 Darks are the cheapest of the group (Ducati notes the only differences between the two as being 2 lb's off the 749's along with glossy finish/red paint for $1000+ more ??? ) while still about 2K more than a SS 1000DS. 2K more for a nicer looking bike IMO, a higher spinning engine, 13Hp more, and ~10lb-ft torque less at ~3000Rpm higher. I realize the higher rpm torque makes a difference because of its ability to be geared down more, but can anyone clear me up on the real differences in the bikes when you ride them? Is there a reason for the cost differences (other than maybe some more cash in the dealership's pockets)?
Thanks,
Dan
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
And PS,
Can someone clear me up on what the real differences are between the regular ducati motors and the testestratta?
Heh thanks...
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The Testastretta motor is just an updated version of the 4v Desmoquatro engine that was in the previous generation superbike.
Testastretta literally means "narrow head"
I don't know for sure, but I believe the 1000DS that's in the supersport is the same aircooled desmo due that's in the S2R 1000, and Sport Classic, etc...
The Testastretta that's in the 749/999 is a 4v, water cooled motor, where the 1000DS is an aircooled 2v.
The 2v motor's are much simpler in their design, and maintenance is typically much cheaper on them.
The testastretta rev's higher, and quicker, and makes more horsepower.
My 749 dark makes 108 hp at, I believe, the crank.
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MonsterTodd said:
I don't know for sure, but I believe the 1000DS that's in the supersport is the same aircooled desmo due that's in the S2R 1000, and Sport Classic, etc...
It's correct. My S2R1000 has the 1000DS motor.
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The Ducati air cooled motors use a simple valve arrangement of two valves per cylinder, one for intake and one for exhaust. The 1000 Dual Spark motor is an example, as are the 800 and 620 motors.
The Testaretta motor has two intake valves and two exhaust valves per cylinder, for a total of four valves per cylinder. It is also water cooled. This is similar to other modern, high performance motors made by other manufacturers.
Ducati uses desmodromic valve actuation in all their bikes which means the valves must be checked regularly and adjusted as needed to proper tolerances. The air cooled bikes have half as many valves to check and can therefore be easier and cheaper to maintain.
The Testaretta motors rev higher and faster. They also produce their peak HP and torque at higher points in their RPM range. The water cooled bikes tend to be a little heavier, due to their added plumbing. This is more apparent when comparing wet weights. For example, the wet weight of the 749 tends to be around 460 lbs. The wet weight of the SS1000 tends to be around 440 lbs. A little research can turn up some more accurate figures, but those numbers are pretty close.
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Eyes Only said:
As it is 05 749 Darks are the cheapest of the group (Ducati notes the only differences between the two as being 2 lb's off the 749's along with glossy finish/red paint for $1000+ more ??? ) while still about 2K more than a SS 1000DS. 2K more for a nicer looking bike IMO, a higher spinning engine, 13Hp more, and ~10lb-ft torque less at ~3000Rpm higher. I realize the higher rpm torque makes a difference because of its ability to be geared down more, but can anyone clear me up on the real differences in the bikes when you ride them? Is there a reason for the cost differences (other than maybe some more cash in the dealership's pockets)?
Thanks,
Dan
Well, the motor has been covered. If you like the looks of the 749 better, go with that.
IMO, the ss1000ds is a better streetbike. (I think it's one of the best street-sport bikes available). The 2v maintainance is simple and not too expensive, the torquey motor is really easy to handle... I swear I remember reading that the 749 and 1000ds made the same torque, but I may be wrong, it's been a while. The SS has more than enough power for the street, and enough to get around the track pretty quick. The suspension and brakes are really good... But, the 749 would make a better track bitch.
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+1 what ^^^^^^ said. [thumbsup]
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Some differences.
749 Dark vs. std. 749: Non- adjustable pegs and steering head, no steering damper. I haven't seen the '06 Dark yet, but the the '05 still had the cast '04 swingarm too.
749 Dark vs. SS1000: Slightly more comfortable riding position for rider on 749, though the seat gets hot. Pillion seat, if that's of any concern, is much more comfortable on the SS. More torgue lower in powerband with the 2V motor and the big difference, the SS 1000 has an Ohlins rear suspension instead of the "entry level" Sachs unit.
If it were me, I'd choose the SS1000 between those two. It's a more practical "all-around " bike.
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MAN...I just went through this myself back in August. '05 749s (used, 2,100 miles) for 12k or '05 SS1000 (new) for 10k?????????????? I went with the 749 because I was simply head over heels in love with the looks of that bike...Still am. But, sometimes when the wife and I are cruising down the freeway beside each other and the sun is just right...I wonder if I made the right decision. If you think an SS looks good in the parking lot, you should see it in motion. Comfort wise, it's a wash IMO. Power wise, this is funny...If I'm not carefeul and my wife catches me in too low of a gear, I can't touch her...espicially mid range or upper speeds. And this is on an 800 much less a 1000. The 749 motor has to be "spun up" more than the 2v motors to do some damage. But, If I'm ready for her, I'll walk away from that bike. Don't know if I could pull that much on a 1000 but it would be a good run. The SS is going to be an easier motor to use just about anywhere IMO, but that testastretta motor runs like a sewing machine. Smoothe as glass everywhere. It's a learing curve to riding a 4v bike. With pipes, I also preferr the sound of the 2v motors. I have a full Termi system on the 749 and still preferr that 2v sound, not that mine doesn't sound good though. And with a set of high mounts....Handling...while the SS is no slouch by any means (espicially the 1000 with the Ohlins rear and adjustable Showia [I believe] in the front) a SBK it is not. My SS never gave me the awe confidence inspiring feeling I get leaning over that 749. As difference as the weights may be as already mentioned, on the street or espicially the track, you're never gonna know you're on the heavier bike. This bike, in the handling department, gives the impression it's 50 lbs lighter than what it actually is. If I lived or rode twisties every day (or was gonna commit to some track time) l'd say get the 749. But, on the other hand being realistic about riding on the street even in really twistie stuff, the SS is going to perform exceptionally well and I don't believe on the street you will ever reach either one's true potential or limits. I can honeslty feel your pain and don't envy the decision you need to make because I was there myself.
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Oh yea...here's another factor...at least it is for me anyways...
I'm never satisfied unless I have best of something in it's class. With a SBK that only means one thing. 999R Ain't gonna happen any time soon. So, I have settled for the 749s and stuck with the reality of spending tooooons of money on exhaust, carbon, and other crap to make myself happy. (I know that sounds really funny hu??? I settled for the 749s)
If I had the 1000SS, that's the top of the line SS. Exhaust, carbon, and other accessories are much cheaper and with the SS you'll eventually run out of "stuff". There's only so much carbon you can buy for an SS. The SBK for me, will never be finished!!! Something to think about.
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Also keep in mind that because of the higher revs on the 749, they are more prone to flaking rockers & spinning main bearings.
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I've spent some street time on a 749 and the underseat exhaust is way too hot for street duty. Stop lights and stop and go traffic are tough on the buns. Plus, I found the riding position uncomfortable for any length of time. On the track it's a whole other story. But for the street I'd go with the SS.
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Norm said:
Also keep in mind that because of the higher revs on the 749, they are more prone to flaking rockers & spinning main bearings.
So far, knock on wood, flaking rokers are not an issue with the testastretta motors. That problem was back in the 916/996/998 days. This motor is also supposed to be great on valve adjustments also. I just did my 6,000 mile service and all were dead center of the specs except for two. I'll probably never have to adjust them again...but I'll still check. Yea, the exhaust heat is something to deal with but an aftermarket set up sure battles that problem. The biggest part of that is the stock muffler has a cat in the muffler. Replacing with aftermarket gets rid of that and SUBSTANTIALLY reducest the heat.
Stop and go traffic the difference in riding position between my two bikes is a complete wash...No difference. One's as good (or bad) as the other.
*** Just got done washing my bike...749 is just too beautiful and that's my choice. But I kept thinking about this thread while I was out there and since you are asking for our opinions, here's mine...Between your two choices I'd say get the SS without a doubt. Reason, I'm not a dark fan at all. Combine that with the other points of the SS that was mentioned and you can't go wrong.
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galaxy said:
I'm never satisfied unless I have best of something in it's class. With a SBK that only means one thing. 999R ... So, I have settled for the 749s
I can't add much to Galaxy's comments except any 749 will not feel like you "settled", which of course is what he is saying between the lines. As far as the difference in a 749 testastretta engine feel and a DS1000 engine feel, it's just a torque thing. The DS1000 has the low end torque that enables you to be lazy if you want, where the 749 requires you to be more involved, more of the time.
It's kind of like the 1st generation BMW M3 i had back in the late 80's - had a 16 valve twin cam 2.3 litre 192 HP 4 cylinder engine that required that you pay attention to what gear you were in. At 2700 lbs. it was a somewhat 'tossable' sport sedan. Now I'm driving an Audi S4 with a 4.2 litre 340 HP V8 that weighs 3800 lbs. There's nothing really 'tossable' about 3800 lbs. and it really doesn' t matter what gear you're in - just hit it and the torque takes care of things. To me, the 192HP 4-banger was far more involving and ultimately a more rewarding drive.
Good luck with your decision - you really can't go wrong.
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks alot guys.
I think I'm madly in love with the look of the 749 aswell, although the gills on a SS look pretty damn nice.
I think I'll just have to test the two on the street so I can feel the difference around town.
If only I could take them each for a feeler through some nice canyon... >
Source: https://www.ducatimonster.org/threads/749-dark-vs-ss1000ds.124473/
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